The Lama Workshop - Modlin & Scott

MODLIN & SCOTT
Masters Of Midwestern Rural Rock

by Patrick Lundborg

Released on the same Indianapolis label as 1970s underground classics like Zerfas and Primevil, interest in Modlin & Scott's excellent 1976 album The Train Don't Stop Here Anymore seems to be increasing. I recently came in contact with Dave Scott, who together with Dan Modlin formed the duo, and Dave kindly agreed to the interview below.

Q: Were you or Dan Modlin in any bands prior to the Modlin & Scott LP?

DAVE SCOTT: Firstly, Patrick, let me say “thanks” for the invitation to chat about the album and its circumstances. It’s flattering and much appreciated. Dan and Jerry DeRome had played together in a group called the Temperance Union for a short time before it disbanded. I (rhythm) joined Dan (bass) and Jerry (drums) in forming a group called The Poverty Programme in the winter of ’66-’67. Jay Wilfong (lead guitar) joined the outfit shortly thereafter and Steve Benefiel (keyboard) was the last to be added. No records resulted from that collaboration. The group was fairly prolific in the Central Indiana area, however, and played a lot of shows (high schools, colleges, clubs etc) during ’67-’68 until college and/or military obligations separated us. Our repertoire as primarily a “cover band” was pretty varied, including artists like The Who, Wilson Pickett, Jimi Hendrix, Vanilla Fudge, Yardbirds, Beatles, The Animals, etc. We also had a very strong folksy side as well and included tunes by groups like The Byrds, Buffalo Springfield and Bob Dylan. I guess the group had kind of a split-personality now that I think about it. The next few years, was a period of many different groups, members and combinations. None of these produced any recordings for Dan or I. Even though we weren’t together in a formal group, Dan and I (and with Jerry whenever possible) continued playing together regularly (acoustic mostly) throughout these years. Meanwhile, Jay and some other area players formed the group Primevil and recorded the “Smokin’ Bats at Campton’s” LP with recording wizard Mo Whittemore at 700 West recording studio.

Q: How did Modlin & Scott form? Was it a project mainly to record the LP, or a longer collaboration?

DS: Well, basically, it’s all a continuation of the long story. Dan, Jerry, Jay and I reformed in 1973-74 and shortened the name to “Programme.” It was a substantially more sophisticated group musically and vocally than before and included a number of original tunes on the playlist. Unfortunately, our “split personality” was growing deeper. We had just begun recording a “Programme” LP at 700 West when our differences became serious. The group was divided into two camps: Dan and I in the folksier style and Jay and Jerry with harder rock’n’roll preferences. The artistic differences became unworkable and the project – as well as the band --fell apart. So there we were. Just beginning an LP project and no band. At that time, Dan and I were the group’s primary songwriters and had sufficient original material to complete the project. With wonderful help from Jay, Jerry and others, the LP took a decidedly different musical turn and became the Modlin & Scott LP.

Q. How did the concept for the LP come up?

DS: I have to say I’m glad you asked this question. I’m always sort of amused when I see reviewers talk about the album as a “hobo” concept. It never was that. The songs admittedly have a nostalgic bent to them and that’s not totally accidental. At the risk of demystifying the album, in general terms, I think it’s as much about the longing for simpler times as anything. I think I can speak for Dan in saying that “Loser, Lover” and “Long Way from Heaven” are largely about the hardships of musicians being on the road and falling into the nightclub trap and the personal costs associated with that lifestyle. “Jack McCall” is the man who murdered Wild Bill Hickock in Deadwood, South Dakota, in 1876. In the song, he’s talking to a newspaperman while awaiting his execution. “Southern Lady” was inspired by a young woman I knew in college. She was engaged to be married to a man who her friends all knew was wrong for her. Her friends were right, as it turned out. I could go on, but the point is that I’m not sure where the “hobo” issue came from. “Till the Bottle’s Dry” does use a hobo metaphor, but I believe the song’s really about making the most of what time we have and getting every drop out of life.

Q: Do you recall any artists or albums that may have influenced your work with the Modlin & Scott LP?

DS: I know I can speak for Dan, too, when I say The Byrds, Buffalo Springfield and the Hollies were extremely influential for both of us. I am sure there were others that Dan would say had an impact on him, but I'd not want to speculate. For me, I'd have to add Frummox (Steve Fromholz and Dan McCrimmon) as well as CSN, Poco, Flying Burrito Brothers, Nitty Gritty Dirt Band and the like. I have no doubt as well, that some of the early folk artists/groups of the late '50s and early '60s left a mark in there somewhere. I've also always had an affinity for Irish folk music. It's really hard to say who specifically had the most influence. I think you end up being kind of a blend of all your influences and it's that unique mixture that leads to new and diverse results.

Q: What arrangement did you have with 700 West? Any particular reason for going with this label?

DS: It’s obviously been a while, but my recollection is that the studio time was provided by the label. We were thrilled since a) We probably couldn’t have afforded the time; and b) We had heard Mo’s other work and were flattered that he’d want to invest in us. Mo had a great reputation and it was well deserved. There were other studios around Indy, of course, but none with better sounding credentials than 700 West. We were also fortunate in that the studio was within 20 minutes of my house and Dan’s.

Q: What do you recall of recording the album?

DS: Wow. What an experience. It was a magical time both artistically and musically. The atmosphere was electric. Musicians—good ones – were flowing in and out of the studio. Sidemen offering to play. Mo’s genius at the controls, constantly showing us new tricks that we’d certainly never seen before. Most of the tracks were laid one or two at a time and then built up with the other instruments and vocals. Some of the tunes were also produced by Mike Griffin, a top DJ in the Indianapolis FM scene at that time, who brought his ears to the project, too. We were always listening to the progress on other groups’ recordings and I’m sure they were listening to ours as well. It’s really hard to put into words just what that ambience was all about. It was a combination of many things – and nearly all good ones at that. One of the best and most educational experiences of my life to that point.

Q: Any memories of how many copies were pressed of the album, and how it was promoted?

DS: My recollection is that there were 1,000 album copies pressed. We did get hooked up with a substantial record distribution company in Indianapolis, whose name now escapes me, but promotion was limited, however, due largely to tight budgets. The LP did get limited airplay on nearly 30 radio stations in the region. There were numerous reviews in various publications and, as I recall, overall they were very positive ones at that. Nonetheless I think we were somewhat victims of the times. In 1976, our music was a bit too country for the mainstream rock stations and a bit too rock for the country stations. Timing is everything and we kind of slipped through the cracks, I think.

Q: How did you come in contact with Arthur Swords, the veteran hobo heard on the LP?

DS: That’s a curious story. Arthur Swords, or “Shanty” as he was commonly known, was one of those old-time “town characters” in the hometown where Jay and I operated a music store from 1973-1980. He was a frequent visitor at the store and always had tales to tell about being a musician in the early days. We eventually got him to accompany us to the studio one evening and share his stories there, where they were recorded. He talked about the days when he sold seeds as a boy to buy his first violin. And about his playing a dance for the public with only himself and another guitar player. I think Dan and I really identified with this old fellow and his lifelong love of music. Some things are universal, I guess. Using a couple of those stories on the album was too good and too poignant to pass up. Interestingly, he acquired the nickname “Shanty” because of a story he always told about having been the true composer of the old tune “Shanty in Old Shanty Town.” He claimed that a traveler stopped in town one day and heard him and some friends playing that tune. Some weeks later, he always claimed, he heard it on the radio – convinced that the traveler had stolen his song. It probably was his only claim to fame in his lifetime. Sad, really.

Q: What happened after the LP? Did you perform much live?

DS: Dan and I performed a few gigs in promotion of the LP, but really, when it didn’t become the commercial success we had hoped for, I think we became somewhat introverted musically. I think we finally realized that playing ultimately has to be about loving the music and not about dreams of success. You have to do it for the satisfaction it gives you personally, not for the accolades of others. Over the years, we (often joined by Jerry) played a few shows, generally ones we wanted to do, and did them for free, but we never played together for money again, as I recall. When folks pay you, they want to tell you what to do, what to play, when to start and stop. We had already done enough of that. We did a couple of studio demos of new tunes, but they were never released anywhere. Mostly we continued to play together privately – writing, arranging and working on vocal parts.

Q: What are your thoughts and opinion about the LP today?

DS: Well, I’m still proud of it. I think the songs are still good songs and that Mo’s engineering and producing genius holds up amazingly well for a 30-plus-year-old recording, especially given the technology he had access to back then. Oh, sure, there are things I know Dan and I would do differently if we were recording the tracks today. Tweaks here and there – mostly in production and arrangement but in song length and tempo, too, in a case or two. But overall, I think it captures what we were trying to do and say back then very well.

Q: You were also involved with recording the Brown County Band LP a few years later. Any particular memories from this?

DS: Well the Brown County Band was one of the projects that we did when Jay and I had the recording studio and music store. We actually recorded a number of bluegrass/folk-type bands during that time. I remember having the chance to produce the Brown County bunch and thought they had a unique style about them that could be enhanced toward being both commercial and artistic without selling out either one. It was a good LP as I recall.

Q: Have you stayed involved in the music scene in recent decades? Any more recordings made?

DS: After the band and my departure from the music store in ’80, I pretty much got out of the biz. I went to work at a daily newspaper and put 21 years in there -- writer/photographer and eventually Editor. Dan and I continued to play together regularly through most of this time, but mainly just living room stuff – writing tunes, working on harmony vocals and etc. We made some additional recordings for ourselves, but nothing commercially since “Train.” Dan’s day job took him to the University of Western Kentucky in the early ’ 90s and we really didn’t have a lot of opportunities to get together after that. Nonetheless, I guess you could say that I’ve come somewhat full circle. I now run a quasi-governmental agency in Central Indiana that owns and operates a restored performing arts theatre. We host concerts, live theatre productions and lots of other performance events. Obviously, a lot of my musical and tech background has come in handy in this latest life.

Q: Have you ever been approached about a reissue of the Modlin & Scott LP?

DS: It’s an idea that we’ve kicked around off and on for several years, but it hasn’t materialized – at least not yet. I understand there’s a bootleg knockoff of the LP circulating around, especially in Europe, but it is unauthorized and in no way involved Dan, myself or Mo Whittemore. Unfortunately the original masters have been lost and are no longer available. But that’s not to say that the wonders of modern technology couldn’t result in a legitimate reissue someday. I like to think it might still happen.